Fintech Hustle
Join host Sam Kilmer, fintech advisor, in unscripted conversations with top fintech industry leaders. No planned corporate talking points, no scripts, no pitches. Just useful advice and insights. To keep it lively, Sam often brings co-hosts like author/researcher Ron Shevlin, former American Banker editor Mary Wisniewski, and former Bank Director President Al Dominick.
Fintech Hustle
Fintech Hustle: The Flashback Episode
Ever wondered what happens behind the scenes of the FinTech Hustle podcast? This special flashback episode pulls back the curtain as we, your hosts Sam Kilmer, Mary Wisniewski, Ron Shevlin, Al Dominick, and the usually behind-the-scenes Bailee Wishart, journey through our favorite podcast moments, featuring key moments from former guests Kara Parkey, Doug Brown, Kim Snyder, Tom Shen, Emily Steele, Neil Underwood, Derik Sutton, Sarah Howell, Siya Vansia, and Mike Triggiano. If you've ever wanted a sneak peek into the essence of FinTech Hustle, this episode is your front-row ticket. Buckle up and tune in for a rollercoaster ride through our podcast history!
Well, hello out there. This is Sam Kilmer, your host of Fintech Hustle. We're glad to be with you Again. This is a special. This is a special episode.
Sam Kilmer:This is our Fintech Hustle flashback episode, and I'm joined by a rock star insider cast here that I'd like to tell you a little bit about and get going here. I think there's going to be some familiar faces you see here. For starters, Mary Wisniewski, one of our Fintech Hustle co-hosts, former editor at American banker and rock star editor here at Cornerstone Advisors. Also our chief research officer at Cornerstone Advisors, the snarkinator- in- chief, Ron Shevlin. Thanks for joining us, Ron, and for co-hosting and actually we'll talk about this a little bit Really helping to start this thing off a few years ago. And then Al Dominick, partner and often co-host on the road with me at some of these industry events. Thanks for joining us, Al.
Sam Kilmer:And a name and a face you may be less familiar with, but you should be, and Bailee Wishart is , who is our digital media specialist at Cornerstone Advisors. She actually keeps whenever we're doing any of these recordings. She keeps the train on the rails, if you will, behind the scenes, and I felt like it was really important, in particular for this episode, for Bailee not to be behind the scenes, and something you may not know, even if you do know Bailee or know Cornerstone is that actually Bailee. In addition to being our production expert here, she actually has a podcast of her own. You can check out out there on LinkedIn. She's got that in her profile and she's out there on Insta as well and all the hip places and she also has great I love those Barbie headphones. You're rocking right there, Bailee, so well done on that.
Bailee Wishart:Got a cap off 2023 with the Barbie pink.
Sam Kilmer:I know, you got to do it, you got to do it. And I'll just start off right off the bat by saying when we first started talking about all the great old moments that we've thought about on FinTech, Hustle and just sort of things that resonated, I recall you and I and Mary, as I recall, were having a chat. I think I was on a call where I had to pull over on the side of the road. I was driving back from a client engagement and you threw out an idea for this. You know what we're doing here today and would you tell us a little bit about the idea, because it's all yours, as I recall, and you and Mary kind of threw it down. That was great, so tell us a little bit more about it.
Bailee Wishart:Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing was we were trying to kind of dream up a way to kind of cap off the year and do something fun with FinTech Hustle.
Bailee Wishart:And there's this series of videos that Vanity Fair does every year with Billy Eilish, where Billy Eilish will actually do the same interview every year, answer the same questions every year, but she'll actually get to look back and see what her answers were two years ago, three years ago, five years ago. I think they're on year seven and I believe year eight is supposed to come out sometime this month, I believe. So pretty crazy because I mean, I think even for Billy Eilish being as young as she is, you probably got to see yourself grow up through these videos but figured that it might be kind of a fun way to just kind of watch FinTech Hustle grow up, look back at maybe some of the moments that happened on the show in the past and kind of get some real and raw reactions to past FinTech Hustle in the present. So shot that idea out and sounds like you liked it because we're doing it.
Sam Kilmer:So yeah, yeah, so far we like it. We'll see how it goes.
Al Dominick:Is Sam Billy Eilish Sam is.
Doug Brown:Is brother Phineas.
Mary Wisniewski:Is Mary.
Al Dominick:Billy Eilish, I was like what's help? Or you'd run myself because, as the elder statesman, we need to understand the roles that we get to play.
Bailee Wishart:I believe in. I believe in this scenario Sam is. Sam is our Billy Eilish, though we may or may not ask him to sing on this.
Sam Kilmer:I think what she was really saying was hey, Sam, don't quit your day job. So that's pretty good, I'll try to live up to that.
Sam Kilmer:So anyway we really appreciate you coming up with that and into your point. I think in this case, some of this will be from the last year, but we've got a few things that may be a little bit older than that, but we just thought it seemed like it made a lot of sense and I thought maybe one way we could start off is to really start at the beginning. Ron and I this is the way I recall it, ron, maybe you remembered a little bit differently we were just having a chat one day and we said wouldn't it be great? So it will remind me a little bit of like Steve Williams when he told us about when they first started doing God's In the Bank. Wouldn't it be great if we just I don't know wrote some things that we thought were cool? You and I were like wouldn't it be great if we just got a few people together from the industry and had a conversation about what's going on out there in FinTech land? And For our first episode, which we didn't even call Fintech Hustle, we had.
Sam Kilmer:Kara Parky from.
Sam Kilmer:Mx and AFT, as well as Scott Mills, who I happen to know from AFT, but you and I, ron, had known from Wade Mills. I don't know if that's the way you remember it, but I just remember Kara being right there from the beginning and somewhere in the middle of that episode she said unfortunately we're still a work in progress here and I don't think we couldn't locate the video, but she said this is during the pandemic, mind you. So we started this whole thing while everybody was at home, so it was a virtual session. And she said the hustle is just different now and she was talking about the way that people reach, using content and meeting people and those things. And we were so inspired by it afterwards that you and I and Steve Williams and a couple others got together and we said we should just go ask Kara hey, do you mind if we steal that and actually name the podcast after it? Is that the way you remember?
Sam Kilmer:it, Ron, or do I have it? All wrong.
Ron Shevlin:Sam, I don't remember what I did yesterday. You're asking me about three and a half years ago, but yeah, I remember Kara saying the hustle is different and I think that's when the light bulb went off. For both of us that was like that's it. That's what this is about. It's about the fintech hustle and we just love the connotation that not only was it relevant to today, but the whole 70s flashback aspect of it. So yeah, I think you're spot on there.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, I know, mary, you and Aleph also see Kara out there on the road in many of your travels. And anyway, I'll just throw out mad respect to Kara, not just for helping this name ultimately give some more identity to what we were trying to do, but just for being someone who cares in the industry and leans into things.
Sam Kilmer:And I always say she's like one of the best examples. We'll talk about others today, people that are just smart, they're fun and they get stuff done, which has kind of been my criteria for who might be a guest out.
Al Dominick:Well, I think I say throw the shout out also to Scott and William Mills. That agency's done a heck of a job representing a number of tech companies as they try to tell their story a little bit differently how it relates, and so Kara is an incredible advocate for the industry. I think Scott and his brother and the team at William Mills also deserves a shout out from us, because we've got so many great folks that are doing some really cool things. But if you don't know what they are or who they are, then it's just the tree falling in the woods, no doubt no doubt.
Sam Kilmer:Well, I'll tell you. Another flashback is we were thinking through things and, Mary, I think this was one that you had identified was Doug Brown over at NCR and Alvoix and I don't know. Bailey, can you queue up that clip?
Bailee Wishart:Absolutely.
Doug Brown:Apple can sneeze and make $10 billion right. So I'm not that impressed that their deposit draw was that great, especially on the rate they were using to do it. One other thing I don't know if everyone in this panel has used it yet, but when you put the money in, it's like the Roche Motel you can check it in but you can't check it out. I have been waiting 75 days for $1,000 to come back to me because I was just experimenting with it. So Apple's the master of UX and brand and, like you're saying on the deposit draw, however, you got to follow through.
Sam Kilmer:Good stuff, Mary. Any thoughts on that?
Mary Wisniewski:My main thought is I always appreciate Doug Brown's candor, so I appreciate that and how he's just like standing up like no big deal but can't get his money. But that was such a big story, I think, of this year of people not being able to move their money out of Apple for a bit of time, to the point where they were giving like apology money to certain customers.
Ron Shevlin:Oh and Sam, I want Doug Brown's job because, like, when I experiment, it's with $10, not $1,000. So Doug and I need to have a conversation about some things here.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, what I loved about it too in the spirit of the smart fund, get stuff done is you'll notice how Doug didn't really hesitate. I love the unscripted aspect of the fact that he just went right. We can say he went for the negatives, but he was. You know, he had an experience and he shared. It was very specific. And Marriott to Marriott your point, it was a great. It was just a great nugget. But I did love the fact Apple's obviously been a very consistent topic that we've had as a company, because they've obviously been a disruptor in the space and, some ways, a competitor as well.
Sam Kilmer:So that was a good one, and, rod, you know, speaking of kind of people that have been disrupting the space, I'm sort of taken back to the bank director acquire or be acquired conference from Last year. Well, actually it was this year, boy, the right side. It's like all dog years now, but it was earlier this year, which seems like it was a long time ago, and so I guess they say that would be seven years in fintech dog years, but earlier this year PA Oval Conference, kim Snyder from Clarivus spent some time with us and, bailey, can you pull up the video on that?
Bailee Wishart:Yes, sir, your competitor is not the bank industry.
Emily Steele:Competitors for small business is PayPal, then no square right. You need to understand that. I think oftentimes community banks, they like to focus on who's next to order them in their industry and that's really not where they're supposed to be.
Al Dominick:What cool background music.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, thanks for that, bailey. I love it. Ron, you were there when she said that, and you and I and Jamie upon us. You were there. Any thoughts on Kim's call, sir?
Ron Shevlin:Well, kim is spot on, but I gotta tell you, sam, this actually reminds me of a story that I actually have used many times and I stole it from you. You were doing a strategic planning session. You told me a while back and you asked the management team hey, do you guys see rocket mortgage in your space, in your footprint, in the garlic?
Ron Shevlin:No, we don't see them, of course you don't see them, but they've got incredible market share and so it does. Kim's point kind of echoes a lot of that about how there tends to be a bit of a tunnel vision in banking around who you're competing with. Credit unions think they're competing with other credit unions, community banks think they're competing with other community banks. And these days I like to use that Cameron and Mackenzie picture of mine to show how consumers' financial lives just span so many different providers and they're all competitors in one way or another, even if they're not competing for the exact same product or service. They're competing for engagement. They're competing for mind share.
Al Dominick:You know, ron, as you're saying this because you're referencing a choir be acquired in parallel to your conversation. You know, I think there's a greater appreciation from the banking space that legacy mindsets, legacy teams, legacy cultures are going to really hold you back. And so when you talk about not really being aware of what's happening outside of your immediate shop, I think that's a real risk that has been addressed by a lot of different people in a lot of different ways throughout 2023.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, I'll just go ahead and point out too that shout out to the bank director team, because I remember having just great conversation with Kim and Jamie Ron that you and I had. It was such a natural conversation, partly because there was so much first to talk about from the event. And so and I'll give the bank director team another shout out because I'm really looking forward to we're only about like what all about About like two months out.
Al Dominick:Maybe we're so close. I'm picking my pocket squares.
Sam Kilmer:Oh, clearly yeah.
Mary Wisniewski:Who's the pocket square that earns a cackle Hold?
Al Dominick:on? Who's counting with me? How many do we? It's like seeing paths. Hold on, we're still doing it. Ron, I think you're on 12 or 13. Hold on who's counting at home, because this could continue for quite some time.
Ron Shevlin:It's like a magician's trick pulling the handkerchiefs out of us.
Al Dominick:You know, Warren, I could just do this and just go on the same calmer side of things and just say, oh, it's time for a fintech hustle.
Sam Kilmer:That's a pocket square thing. That's pathological. Alex, You've got that up to a really high level of obsession, but mad respect for that actually Tip of my hat on that.
Al Dominick:You've got a hat, I've got the pocket squares, ron's got the snark and then Mary's got the roller skates. So I feel like we all have our thing.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, and the halls are gonna be so bustling at the ALBA conference coming up that we decided that we're preparing for our first fintech hustle, carpool edition. Carpool Bailey's working on the production logistics as we speak, with Sue Sulecky from COCC, aaron Simpson from I-Core Bank and. Nathaniel Hartley from Mantle are gonna join Alana and Bailey. We're gonna try to fit.
Al Dominick:it's gonna be like a mad mashup of we're gonna be in a mini-cooper, driving around the mean streets of Scottsdale trying to figure out how to, you know, have some fun conversations without running any stop lights.
Sam Kilmer:Yep. So anyway, we're looking forward to that. And I think you know another thing. You know that's. You know it's not all fun and games in fintech I think we've seen over the last you know year or so. It's been a tough road out there. And I have to say, one of the industry I think one of the industry luminaries we had on the podcast, tom Shin, sort of foretold this before it really hit. And, bailey, if you could tee up the next video clip for me please.
Bailee Wishart:Absolutely.
Tom Shen:The good companies, the ones that are growing 80, 150, 300%. They're still getting incredibly frothy valuation in the mid-20, mid-20x type of valuation. But on the other end, the company that's sort of doing well but sort of middle of the road or not as well, they're seeing lower valuation or at times can shut out of fundraising. So bifurcation of the fundraising space and that's a good thing and that's a challenge as well.
Sam Kilmer:I went off mute there because my dog Mabel, back there, was being a little bit more vocal than I would have preferred.
Doug Brown:for that I didn't want to interrupt that. That's a really good point. I think as one investor I said to him I put it last week, it's like there's still interest in the space.
Sam Kilmer:It's just the cost of capital is going up and people are scrutinizing it. The underwriting is just getting a little bit more particular.
Tom Shen:So really interesting point and follow the money. Huh, yeah, yeah. As I said, it's like the quality rotation, right, we're seeing some rotation after, interestingly, from sort of the more sexy to the less sexy, to more meat and potato, if you will.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, good stuff. I love the meat and potatoes. Observation from Tom I also liked that fast talker thing that was going on with me.
Al Dominick:What I like about Tom is he says follow the money and he actually walks the talk. If you know Tom, he could have very happily retired in Palm Springs and just kicked it on the golf course. Instead, you see his LinkedIn stuff where he's looking for the next great FinTech company and it's global in scale and he's not letting geographic boundaries limit his creativity and his curiosity. I just think it's such a cool example of somebody who's built companies, built relationships, networks, and can you continue to invest in people, and so chasing great ideas seems to be Tom's MO at the moment.
Ron Shevlin:Yeah, Sam quick comment on that. You did, I think, to Tom's meat and potatoes comment. It's not just meat and potatoes, it's infrastructure and it's banking. I won't name the source on this one, but it's somebody we all know likes to say that the future of banking is FinTech, and I like to say that the future of FinTech is banking, and that's what the direction we're really moving in here.
Mary Wisniewski:Well, ron, to your point. I don't know if everyone saw the news yesterday that HM Bradley is sunsetting its consumer line but is now selling to banks.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah.
Mary Wisniewski:Yeah.
Sam Kilmer:It's a common thread. It's a three point plan One is we're going to blow up the banking business. The second point. The second one is we're not going to fight him, we're going to join him.
Sam Kilmer:And then the third one is typically it's not going well, we might not be doing anything. It seems like there's been that kind of that pattern of either people exiting after the joint they can't beat him, join him thread. But yeah, I agree with you out too about Tom. He's in the middle of everything. He's on a half dozen boards and I'm following his travels vicariously because he likes Sting and Biner and others in the business. It's like you run into him at a conference and you see that they have genuine care and joy for what they're doing trying to help people.
Al Dominick:Yep Great connection.
Sam Kilmer:It's not just some money chase. 100% agree Great connection yeah. So funding is so funding and investments, given the VC winter that's going on in the space of that, that's what the one challenging area I think another challenging area that is not new at all has been integration and Bailey. I know we have. I believe we have a clip from when I was at the Finnovate conference in New York with John Waps and Emily Steele, and Emily made some comments.
Bailee Wishart:Yep, here it is.
Emily Steele:There's one thing to roll out all of this new technology, but it's being coupled with a conversation around how do you actually integrate it and make it work at a bank. Not just how do I buy it, put it on a shelf and hope and pray, but instead how do we actually integrate it with our entire ecosystem such that it really can be used for the long term, if you will.
Sam Kilmer:Any thoughts on? That from my co-host.
Al Dominick:That seems to be one of the words of the year and just being super practical. So I think the idea that you've got unlimited runway for creativity has been really poked apart over the last 18 months, and so when you think about how practical and pragmatic like a bank's CFO really is, you can understand internally there's business challenges that need to be immediately addressed, and so if you can't come in from the tech side and show how your solution gets to that outcome, so the integration, the implementation, those are components of it, but what is the outcome that the bank is driving towards that the tech company can help with? And to be able to show that you get in there, roll up your sleeves and get it done. That to me seems to be one of the big underlying themes of this year.
Sam Kilmer:Good stuff. Well, I'll tell you so. If industry funding or investors has been one challenge over the last year and integration has been certain it's been a challenge over the last year, but it's been a challenge since I was a banker back when I had more hair and fewer hats. I think another sort of third area that comes to mind has been regulatory related and I believe, bailey, from back when we had Peggy Mango and Neil Underwood on Sintek Castle we've got a clip from Neil that you wouldn't mind holding up.
Bailee Wishart:Yeah.
Neil Underwood:Running a bank for 10 years, going to the regulator meetings and examining the findings, and so it's just the discipline around understanding all that is regulatory compliance. I think many of the FinTechs that don't have that experience quite frankly underestimate that element and what it means.
Sam Kilmer:Any comments on that guys?
Al Dominick:I have comments and I have thoughts, but you can take what Neil says and you can apply it to what's going on in the best space right now, where you see it just takes one accidental misstep or worse and things get sideways really fast. And so that understanding of regulatory expectation compliance burdens, that's fundamental to being in a traditional financial institution, and so when you think about the different investments that tech companies are making from their hiring, it's not surprising to see all these different open positions for really smart, sophisticated folks who understand what's going on in the regulatory world that we're a part of.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, I think I was also reminded of someone that we haven't had on the program yet but, I'd like to at some point Louvelyn Ceddo, who was talking about kind of the space and whether it's bass or whatever, but basically embedded, where you have all these different players splitting up the interchange At the same time that each one of those parties has a compliance head. So you've got three companies splitting up the revenue, or two companies, whatever the economics are of the deal, and then you've got three compliance officers on any given conference call, all with their own interpretation, all arguing about what's okay. And I think I'm not trying to put words in her mouth, but I remember her saying something along the lines of, if I was paraphrasing the dude from the big Lebowski, you know this aggression cannot stand. I think he was channeling President George Bush, but anyway, the point is is that it's not tenable. It can't hold. You can't have three people with three different interpretations and splitting up all the money.
Sam Kilmer:And that'd be okay, and what I liked about what Neil said was very practical. I also like the fact that Neil is I've referred to often times as a trifecta someone who's a banker, a fin-tector and an investor, so they can kind of see all those things from all sides. But anyway, I love to have Neil on and I know he doesn't do a lot of programs like that now, so it's really flatter that he joined us. But that was a really salient point, I think. Also, let's see, mary, you and I I think we were I'm trying to remember we were at a maybe at a fenovation.
Sam Kilmer:I'm trying to think where we were at, where we had a good session with Derek Sutton from Auto Books and John Finlow, and I know, Bailey, you've got a clip here of Derek- that's tech Florida, I think.
Bailee Wishart:This one also might have some background music to it, so just be prepared.
Mary Wisniewski:Get ready to dance.
Derik Sutton:Yeah, the banking industry will not let go of the past and there's all of these features and capabilities that are probably used by the minority at the customer base. But there's somebody in the back office that says you know, we can't let go of these features because we've got X, y and Z on it and what that does is it holds everything back, it makes AI harder, it makes change management harder, it makes implementation of the new technology harder. So everything we hold on to that's not readily used needs to go away. The banks are like the cheesecake factory and you open up, you go to the cheesecake factory, they got this menu and it's like selection after selection after selection and it's overload.
Derik Sutton:Infintech's like in and out burger and I'm gonna get a burger, I'm gonna get a fries and shake and I know it's gonna be good. I know exactly what it is, it's simple and easy and you can pivot and innovate off that model. I think it's really hard to scale cheesecake factory of features, capabilities, from a marketing standpoint, from an innovation standpoint, that at some point in time I think banks are gonna have to say, hey, these things can go away and that's okay, and if there's customers that are impacted, maybe we don't want those types of customers.
Sam Kilmer:Mary, you're right, that was the next step and it was kind of fun talking over the music and it looked like Derek Sutton had a little bit of a Beck's thing going on there where he was. You know he had the microphone, two turntables and a microphone. There it is, yeah. So, mary, any thoughts on? I just remember that. You know that analogy was very cool, but anything that jumped out at you on that, yeah, the analogy is really cool, I mean, it's just a really true point.
Mary Wisniewski:I used to have to like hop around bank websites and it's just like like to look for their disclosures to find things out and it's just like such a like vomit on the page sort of look for many of them and so many products. But I will say like, when you sunset a product, even though it's like a small amount of people, those people get really mad. And something that happened during the pandemic was a few of the challenger banks new banks, started letting people deposit cash at retailers. So it just it's just like, it's just a hard tension and I don't know what the right answer is but, feel it.
Mary Wisniewski:New darling, it's hard yeah.
Al Dominick:I mean, Mary, as you're talking to, I'm thinking about something Ron put on social that just blew up and it was all around Chime winning the deposit war and basically he's like, guys, the war has been won by Chime and I know I'm paraphrasing my friend who's on with us right now but what's still surprising is how few bankers have actually gone on to Chime's site, have taken out their phone and tried to open an app or open an account with Chime to see the massive difference that exists between what the bank provides and what a company like Chime provides. So I'm not, you know, trying to put Chime up on a pedestal, but, Ron, you have clearly rattled some cages, because your LinkedIn stuff just blew up when that first came out.
Ron Shevlin:Yeah, and what I point to here, though, is it's less about the account opening process as it is about the product, and that's what Derek was really talking about in comparing Cheesecake Factory and In-N-Out Burger, which I don't have any value around here. So I'm assuming it's really good, but it's a product and it's a limited product, and that's what they do. When they do it very well, the banks think, well, we have to offer everything and don't have as good a product offering. You go to Chime, they have a target market, they knew who they're serving and, over there, looking for, and the product is geared towards those people. So you know now, even if bank CEOs went to Chime's site and did this, sure they'd find a great account opening process, but they wouldn't actually notice necessarily that it's the product features that are actually, you know, attracting people by the hordes.
Al Dominick:Yeah, I just remember back, maybe five, six years ago, something that Brian Moynihan, the CEO of B of A, said about why he gets up from his desk as often as he does. And it's just if you're not putting yourself into these uncomfortable positions and you're seeing what others are doing, that you have decided well, we can't do this. You've artificially said some obstacles, then you can't lead effectively. So you know what you're saying. I agree with Ron, but I think it's the responsibility of the industry's leaders to say hey, are we putting some unintentional rocks in front of our teams? And, if so, how do we talk about that so that people aren't prevented from actually taking some chances? Because there's nothing that says what Chime does can't be brought into a regional bank or a credit union. That's ambitious and opportunistic.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, and I think, listen if selling, if banks and fintechs selling to consumers and small businesses or commercial, which is called that B2C was a big topic this year. Another big topic has been B2B, which is how do enabling fintechs or challengers even do they sell and partner with banks.
Sam Kilmer:And I know, al, when you and I were recently at the Jamf and Top Summit, we had a chance to sit down at the fire pit with Dan O'Malley from Numerated as well as Sarah Hall from Nymphedant, and I know Sarah had some comments here. Bailey, she would mind running the video of that?
Sarah Howell:Banks is much more nuanced and much more sophisticated than it was pre-VC winter, when a lot of fintechs were trying to compete with a bank. And now you know they're realizing you can. You can abstract the core, but you can't abstract the charter, so you gotta play nicely. And so now they're shifting their business model to sell into banks. But what I'm realizing is that it's very hard to sell in banks To know their problems at a granular level.
Al Dominick:Any thoughts on that guys? Well, other than the fact that we didn't fall into the fire pit and and kill ourselves by accident, because that was not seen in the video, but we were literally next to this raging fire and it was maybe 35 degrees outside. It looks sunny and warm, but it was actually pretty pretty.
Sam Kilmer:We had legitimate worry that our microphone soon because we actually have a hard cable that goes to the microphone. We had legitimate worried that we might have some meltage Right there.
Al Dominick:But we're sitting around your baseball on the fintech hustle.
Sam Kilmer:We did make it out, but I thought that, I thought that Sarah really Kind of captured the essence of the challenge of you know, sometimes I find sometimes it's either bankers or even consultants I wouldn't say we're dismissive of sales, but people in the industry.
Sam Kilmer:I mean I've worked around sales people almost my whole career that I've not been a banker or I was called on them when I was a banker and it's it's. It's such a tall order To get someone's attention and to command it in a way, and it's getting harder. And you know people's time, they're more distracted. There's a hundred different things coming at them. But I did think that she really nailed it, that it's tougher now and you just have to be more focused about it and you have to be really detailed about it. So that captured my, my thoughts. I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that.
Al Dominick:I mean, I keep seeing and hearing from bankers that they could fill their entire weeks Calendar if they accepted half of the invitations that were credible and relevant to their business. So that just leaves aside all the ones that have no value to them. And so when you think about, you know, just kind of running and performing, you've got to earn the right to change your business and so you've got to perform every day that's what a bank executive is dealing with to be able to introduce some new ideas that could really move their business in a different direction. You're asking for some, you know, some opportunity to be put to the side. Mm-hmm, I think a lot of tech companies have have realized you just can't say, well, we work with banks, we partner with banks, or you know we're friendly with banks.
Al Dominick:I thought Sarah's point was really spot-on, because to get really detailed and granular and and still something very specific, I think that's the hook that gets you a starting conversation. And then you know, sam, you and I have talked. You've really got to bring your a game. You cannot waste people's time. You can't just talk about, oh, we've got a great team and great technology, because that's total BS. Everyone has a great team. Everyone has great tech. What's in it for me? You know, short and sweet, to the point is always appreciated.
Ron Shevlin:Yeah, quick comment on that too, if I can. I think Sarah makes a great point about Understanding the bankers problems. I know you I think you guys see it as much as I do who vended decks and presentations and they all seem to be so generic. They all seem to start with everybody's digital and everybody's move. This is where we're moving towards, but it doesn't get at the challenges and the problems that the banks are facing and dealing with that. It just seems to want to be Uh, hey, we're moving this direction and you have to become digital too. It's like well, yeah, we kind of know that already. Uh, and I'm just so underwhelmed by a lot of these presentations.
Al Dominick:Famous to Mary is to right.
Mary Wisniewski:I am. I'm very overwhelmed by them. I'm like this is such a dud experience. But looking back, I there was entrepreneur and I think he ended up selling to Wells Fargo. It might have been, I verify, but Regardless it was an entrepreneur in a big bank and it was early in infintech and I just remember panel ended and he, like, ran up to the Wells Fargo exact and that is what brought together the introduction. He ended up selling his product to the bank. I don't know if you could pull that off now, because a lot of my Contacts in the industry are like please, please, stay away from me. I do not want to be sold too, but I do love that story because I do love pluck, but I don't know if it could repeat itself right now.
Al Dominick:Well, so see him, and I said something that I think tech executives should really think about before they present at a conference. So he mentioned we were in Nashville for this jamfin top event. They decided to give like a long runway of speakers two minutes to talk about their company, and the most effective one was a woman and her name's escaping me, but maybe Sam remembers who said you're giving me two minutes to describe my company, I only need one. And in one minute she nailed it and left 60 seconds for the next person who, of course, took three minutes to talk about how great his team was and how great their technology Could be. So he was not memorable, whereas this woman again, even if I'm forgetting her name at the moment Really did a amazing job to to get the vibe Going yeah, so memorable that neither you nor I can remember.
Al Dominick:We're gonna edit our well Bailey, bailey flag. This one is a edit for salmon out to make us sound smarter.
Sam Kilmer:Uh, Too funny and listen. And speaking of being memorable, we're at the jamfin top summit. While we were there at the fire pit about ready to melt the microphone cable, cia Bonzia from Connect One Bank came up and she just made a brief mention of her venture. On effort that she's working on right now with tech entrepreneurs as well as their investments that they made in Bowfly, an acquisition that they've made.
Sam Kilmer:Like Neil Underwood, cia is one of those great trifecta type people that's, a banker, Connect, one Bank, fintecher and Bowfly, and then also in the investor world, showing up at events like Jamf and Top, and Mary and I actually, earlier in the year, after the ALBA conference, had a great session with Daniel Hazley from Aputure and Cia and I think we have a clip from that, don't we, bailey?
Bailee Wishart:Yes, we do.
Mary Wisniewski:Awesome, the panel. He got up on stage to tell like people well, men to like go to the women's reception events. And I just thought, wow, this is such a sincere moment and, like I love it, I was really proud of him in that moment.
Siya Vansia:As you know, there was a women's luncheon at the conference women and banking, which is awesome. There's room full of women and they made a really important point. Like that. Conversation needs to happen on main stage and I'm really happy Michelle sort of made that happen. It was in prompt too. It wasn't planned.
Sam Kilmer:Yeah, Mary, any thoughts on that?
Mary Wisniewski:Yeah, I can't stop on that, sam. First of all, to the other point. This was an amazing moment because it was a really sincere moment. Frank did get up on stage and had like just a candid thought up there and you just don't really see that happen too often at conferences. But yeah, I mean, I just underscore the point you need everyone needs to be in the room to make things happen.
Al Dominick:Well, let me do a little cross promotion of the plugged in podcast that Sam alluded to earlier. Plugged in is a sister to FinTech household from Cornerstone and Steve Williams and I just had a conversation with Maria Tedesco, who's the president and COO at Atlantic Union Bank in Richmond, so you know about $24 billion institution. We talked about this very thing how do you help women rise up in the leadership ranks? And not to paraphrase Maria too long, but she said you know, it's everyone's responsibility, it's not just hers. She's got a model to behavior, but you need to build a team. And so she's got a great CEO and John Asbury who is locked arms with her and says we've got an opportunity to really set an example. And so, whether it's at a conference, like she is describing, whether it's in an office, you know, like Atlantic Union would have.
Al Dominick:I think if we just continue to talk about this and say, hey, it can feel awkward, but it's really uncomfortable that we don't have the number of female executives in positions at tech companies, at banks, at credit unions, that we should, when you just look at the country that we're a part of. And so, instead of hesitating and pulling back, I think it's everyone's opportunity and responsibility to say we all know smart folks, some of them are women, and they should have opportunities to do some really amazing things, and if we can help advance them, then we should be doing that, and so I really appreciate what Cia does. But I appreciate Frank Sorrentino, her CEO, a connect one who has been very outspoken about, you know, the need for diversity, inclusion, and it's not just a check the box type activity. It's something he thinks makes the business stronger, and I have to say I totally agree with him.
Sam Kilmer:Well, one last thing here on that is as we go to the next one is one of the things I love about Cia is while she's fun. So this is, this is, this is both. This is both work and it's fun, and so, and so, too, you're marrying. So I also want to say, mary, I saw in that segment there you were also wearing I believe you had some some disco earrings there, and so are you wearing them? Are you wearing them now?
Mary Wisniewski:I. This is why I was frazzled this morning. I was trying to hide from all the light coming into my apartment. I am not wearing them now.
Al Dominick:I failed today, but I didn't fail them next year, next year when we do the part two of this.
Sam Kilmer:But, you know, in the spirit of keeping it fun, you know, as you might imagine, from this instance an unscripted and many times in the hall recorded. So things don't always go well. You know, sometimes we have kind of like. You know there's a few groupers out there, and so in the spirit of fun too, I think we had a we had a twice over.
Sam Kilmer:Redux episode we had to film it twice with. You were on my trivia out of velocity solutions and Ron and me and I think we have a clip from one of those segments, do we not, bailey?
Bailee Wishart:We do.
Mike Triggiano:Ron, there's no one and done. I mean as fast as you can use that term loosely, but but. But the cores are rolling out updates on, as are the other fintechs, on a pretty regular basis, and if you, if you're going to provide that kind of integration, it's, it's ongoing, it's ongoing development and maintenance and support.
Sam Kilmer:What you may not have been able to hear in the background was there was some, I think we even filtered out.
Al Dominick:Yeah, he was pounding the desk out of.
Sam Kilmer:It was so funny because it was the retake to like we had. We had done it in person and I think and there were some issues with I'm sure it was on my setup of my microphone or something. So we re-filmed it and there's somebody pounding on the lawn we run. We ever determined whether it was kids pounding on the wall or it was.
Ron Shevlin:He's having worked on to his house. He couldn't avoid the fact that that's when they were there and when we had scheduled this. So, yeah, there was construction going on at his house. It was, it was loud, it was disconcerting. Did you send him a?
Al Dominick:bucket hat as a sign of appreciation, Sam.
Ron Shevlin:I did. I did send him a hard hat. Here we go.
Sam Kilmer:A tip of my hat to Mike and his construction woes mid session. I can relate, because my dog, mabel, back there, always said to put a lock back there in the door because she always seems to know when when we're doing one of these things. But listen, guys, I want to take this to second and and.
Sam Kilmer:Mary and Alan run. I want to thank you guys for being gracious co-hosts, with your time and and having a lot of fun with your team, and not just today but in all these episodes. It's very much been a team effort, certainly. I want to thank all nine and all of our guests that we've had thus far and I mentioned we've got some great programs coming up with Sam Paxton from co-op solutions and Nathan Ballmeister from Z-Suite. We've got I mentioned Nathan Carly and Susan and Sue Stilke coming up, so we've got some great episodes coming up. I also want to take just one more moment and say thank you to Bailey for everything you've done to make the production of this a joy and it's just a lot of fun for also for our guests to see you on camera right before and after we're doing our work, and so I wanted to make sure that you were, you were, you were visible to all, to everyone, to just know who's actually making this work.
Sam Kilmer:So thank you for that, bailey thank you.
Bailee Wishart:Thank you, Sam. It's a blast Blast to be here. I'm having a ton of fun.
Sam Kilmer:And thanks for joining us on this episode of Fintech Hustle Flashback Edition. Hope you all have a great you know set of holidays and we'll see you out there on the road.
