Fintech’s Next Frontier: Trust, AI, and the Power of Partnership

AI may be reshaping financial services, but turning new technology into real progress takes more than speed.

Sam Kilmer and co-host Kelli Schultz are joined by Melissa Cullen of FIS, Andres Klaric of Fuse Finance, and Tom Davis of Canapi Ventures for an unscripted conversation about what it really takes to move AI from experimentation into everyday banking.

From agentic customer service and faster product development to regulatory responsibility, customer adoption, data protection, and the growing importance of fintech partnerships, the group explores where AI is already creating real value and where financial institutions still need to move carefully.

The conversation also digs into why distribution alone is not enough, how poor implementation can quickly erode trust, and why the strongest fintech companies will be the ones willing to stand behind outcomes, support their customers, and build experiences people actually want to use.

Guests Include:

• Melissa Cullen - President of Regional & Community Banking and PayTech Women Board Member, FIS
• Andres Klaric - Co-Founder & Co-CEO, Fuse Finance
• Tom Davis - General Partner, Canapi Ventures
• Kelli Schultz (Co-Host) - Managing Director, Cornerstone Advisors

Subscribe to the Fintech Hustle podcast here:
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Chapters:
[00:00] – Meet the Fintech Leaders
[02:01] – Melissa Cullen’s Day in the Life at FIS
[06:43] – Building and Scaling Fuse Finance
[10:19] – Why Listening Matters More Than Ever
[12:06] – Inside the Fintech Investor’s Day
[15:12] – Separating AI Signal from the Hype
[18:03] – Faster Sales Cycles and Outcome-Based AI
[20:48] – Moving AI Beyond Experimentation
[23:09] – Trust, Distribution, and Responsibility
[26:25] – Why AI Adoption Requires Customer Support
[27:41] – The Growing Fintech Partnership Ecosystem
[29:01] – When Agentic AI Creates a Bad Experience
[35:12] – Why Banks and Fintechs Need Each Other

Subscribe to the Fintech Hustle podcast here: 
https://qrco.de/bgfV6g

Transcript

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Well, hello out there. This is Sam Kilmer, Managing Director at Cornerstone

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Advisors and your host of the Fintech Hustle podcast,

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coming to you on this

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steamy summer day, in a steamy

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fintech summer day, and for another episode of

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an unscripted sort of in the hallway chat with some industry leaders

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in fintech.

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And Kelly Schultz and I, I should say, have a

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rock star cast for you today to talk shop and get right

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into it. And so, without any further ado, let me

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go ahead and just introduce our

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panelists, if you will, or our guests today on the podcast.

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For starters, we have Melissa Cullen, who's the President of Regional and Community

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Banking at FIS. You might have heard of them.

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That's a pretty big operation. And I'm also told that

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Melissa is a board member

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at PayTech Women. Welcome, Melissa.

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Thank you very much. Happy to be here.

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Yeah. Happy to have you. Also, Andres

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Cleric, who is the co-founder and CEO of Fuse.

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You may have heard of him in the loan origination space. Welcome, Andres.

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Hey, Sam. Good to see you. And thanks for having me.

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Good to see you, too. And last but certainly not least, we've got Tom

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Davis, who's the general partner at Canopy Ventures.

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You may have heard of them. Canopy Ventures is really big in the fintech space.

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Welcome, Tom.

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Thank you for having me, Sam. Great to be here.

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Yeah, great to have you. And

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I should also point out that for those of you that don't already know my

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co-captain here, Kelly Schultz, who's joined as a guest

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co-host today. Kelly is a longtime fintech veteran and worked in

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several

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startup and established fintech companies over the years.

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And welcome back, Kelly.

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Always a pleasure, Sam. Here we go again.

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Yeah, that's right. Here we go again.

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So with that, let's just jump right in and one of the things I always like to

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start with is just to get to know each other a little bit and so that our audience

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can get to know you a little bit better.

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Tell us a little bit about

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your day in the life. Melissa, you guys have a lot going on at FIS, and I know

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you're in the middle of a lot of it.

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I know you always start with this question, which I love,

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but I also was thinking, man, I do not have a

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consistent day in the life, which is kind of what I love,

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honestly. So, the consistency is it

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starts with coffee. That is probably the only

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consistent thing. Where I'm drinking that coffee seems to

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change. It might be in a hotel lobby if I'm

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out visiting clients or an FIS office.

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Might be out on my patio if it's a

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work from home day.

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But right now, I tend to be doing

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a ton of market listening,

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and then internal translation. Right?

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So, what am I hearing in the market?

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How am I translating that to what FIS needs to be thinking

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about or doing in response? And openly,

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also a healthy bit of impatience. I feel like

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everything these days is moving so fast.

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And making sure that not only my

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team, but our clients can keep up with it.

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So yeah, I am spending a lot of time

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thinking and talking to banks about how they're

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mobilizing around growth.

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Trying to get a balanced perspective across banks of all

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sizes, strategies, and then

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really thinking about what does that mean when it comes to

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modernizing.

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What they're doing around fraud, deposits, lending,

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digital experiences, are all becoming a

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lot more complex. So those conversations

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tend to go in so many different directions.

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But really,

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at the end of the day, it's about making sure

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that

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the banks are looking at FIS

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and our market as a whole as more than just they

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need access to products. They need strategy,

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accountability, and someone who's going to help them be able

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to grow,

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regardless of size. So,

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yes, whether it's internal, whether it's market facing, the days tend

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to be pretty different. But then they also end with me

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spending time, whether it's FaceTime or

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more hopefully in person, with my two girls.

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I have 12 and 13-year-old

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daughters, and a very,

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very tolerant husband who deals with all of us.

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Hey,

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a tip of the hat to tolerant husbands and wives.

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Yes.

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And

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that's great. And

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take me through this, but I think, and maybe I have the timing wrong on this, but I

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think it's maybe about, I don't know, a month or two ago,

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this is a new role for you, right? Like, did you-

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It is a new role

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... come from SunGard through FIS, and this has been an interesting

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journey for you, hasn't it?

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Yes, it has. So,

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it's been almost three months now,

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heading up our regional and community bank office, but I've been

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with FIS for 20 years. I did come up

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through the SunGard acquisition, which we did a number of

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years ago, and have spent

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a bunch of time in our wealth team,

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retirement team, asset management, and really only

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moved over to what

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Oftentimes we think of as banking, but really the banking and payments

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side of our business, about six or

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seven years ago now, first running strategy and most

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recently running our core banking businesses.

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So it's been a fun journey, but also a way to

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get a lot of different perspectives on both fintech and what

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the banks need.

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Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot of responsibility.

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And I'm not just talking about the teenagers either. I know how that works, so.

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Well, Andres, what about you? What's a day in the life of a

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co-founder? And I think this is not your first hayride either.

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You've

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either founded or been part of companies before, so this is an interesting journey

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for you. What's your day in the life look like?

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A day in the life. I can tell you the average day, but I can tell you

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in general, the beginning and the end are pretty consistent.

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So we have a two-year-old and a six-month-old at home, so I know that at

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5:00 a.m., I'm going to have someone coming to nag me to change a diaper, right?

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So that's for sure going to happen.

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And I know that by the time 11:00 or midnight, I'm going to be

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destroyed, I'm going to want to sleep, right?

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The beginning and the end is quite

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predictable, right? And the sense of purpose that

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kind of fills everything in between is just the highest level, right?

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I don't think I've ever been as

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happy and fulfilled as I've been since I started this business with Mark

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now five years or so ago, right? So a day in the life is, I

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live in New York, but sometimes I'm on the road.

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It will be

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kind of going through Slack, right?

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Seeing what are the priorities, what things have emerged, right?

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So

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kind of get a thermometer check of the existing customers, how happy

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they are,

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what is in pipeline for those customers that we can help them in terms of product

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launches, what kind of needs are emerging.

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Being a system of record, right, naturally, there's the opportunity to kind

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of

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add new point solutions and features that

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add value for the customer but also add value for us

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in the system that we have. And it's more like

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platform of customer we can actually bring

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to the table. Speaking with my sales folks, right?

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How can we advance deals forward? One of sometimes multiple

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times a week, I'm speaking with Melissa's team, right?

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Of just trying to see what RFPs are in scope, how we

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think about the demos. Are we thinking about making a splash, right?

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Like, so for example, this week,

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it was weeks and weeks upon coordination on a product

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example, but also from a business example, we announced the

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AI POS, right? So

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everything that comes into it, there's a lot of thinking, right?

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So it's like, what channels are we going to use?

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How are we going to make sure that the

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message dissipates? And on top of that, you have to do all the strategic

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thinking so that the business kind of continues to scale at the level that

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you have set for yourself, that you've promised investors, and ultimately your

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employees and all your clients, right?

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So that's kind of a day in the life. I'm on the road flying

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a lot. Nothing fancy, right? As I tell my friends, I'm an

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expert on the Fairfields and Courtyards of the world.

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My only luxury is nonstop, but still

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coach, and I wouldn't have it other way, right?

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Probably the only thing in the last couple years since I had kids,

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I don't enjoy turbulence as I used to.

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So that's

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probably the only minus that I can see, right, in this

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great kind of

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tapestry of

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experiences that I've been able to have thanks to our clients, our

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employees, co-founder, and investors.

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Congrats on that launch, by the way.

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Super impressive and exciting. And I can

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certainly resonate on the Courtyards

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and the coach flying. So there we are.

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So this is really interesting, Sam.

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I think both

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of you guys so far have hit on a point that I think I want to

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just amplify for a second, and it's you're listening.

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You are listening for client feedback.

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You're listening into the internal channels.

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You're taking that information on a daily basis and then

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developing strategy from that. And I just think that,

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Melissa, your point about speaking

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to clients not only about the products and solutions that fit, but

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why, and the advisory side of how to help them grow, I think

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is just music to my ears. We need to do more of that as an

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industry.

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Anybody can deliver a product, but how do we make sure the fit is right and the

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execution is right with that, and make sure that that fits the

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strategy? Super important. I really love that.

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It is. And I think in today's age where products are

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going to be easier and faster to turn out, like the

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why is so much more important.

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Tom, I've got to think that that's a big part of what you look at when

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you're thinking about companies

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that you want to take a stake in.

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I think that's exactly right. I think, Melissa, so many people always think with

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venture or growth investing is it just the numbers?

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And the why is so critical, and I'll get into this in a bit, but I

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spend a lot of my day talking to customers of companies that we look

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at in our banks. Our investors or our LPs, our

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commercial banks, and kind of the why is so

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critical, particularly with all the noise right now with AI and everything else

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going on, that you can get caught in kind of the headline numbers.

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But the why, I think that's really well said.

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Anything about your

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day in the life that

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you didn't just mention there that we should know about?

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I imagine because you've got the banks on the one side, you've got the

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tech companies and I've just mad respect.

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Neal Underwood was on the podcast a couple years ago, and I was just

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looking at your portfolio this morning-

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He said hello, by the way. I told him this morning I was going to be talking to

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you, and he asked to say hello.

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Oh, yeah.

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Jamie came, so-

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Yeah, no, Neal, he's-

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... he said hello from Neal.

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Oh, yeah. Appreciate it. And he's always a bundle of energy.

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But what I was struck by when I was looking over the portfolio this morning is

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obviously lots of familiar names of the companies, but

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I guess it was just the number of them.

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I

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knew of them, but I guess until I went and looked at the whole list

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again, just how much it's grown, how many companies you're invested in.

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And

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so, I imagine the scope of your day is really interesting and before you end up

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at the Courtyard or the Hampton Inn or whatever.

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Yeah. Well, I live in San Francisco, so I don't have a front porch.

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And I also don't drink coffee. But I do try every morning to get out for a

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run or a bike ride. I figure I'm paying all this big money to

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live out here, I might as well enjoy a view of the Golden Gate Bridge or something

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in the morning. But my day typically starts by talking

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to someone in our network within our portfolio

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companies. I think to your point, Sam, we have a lot of companies.

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And we do a lot at both the early stage and the growth

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stage.

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And I think our companies are at different points of growth.

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Some of them have two or three employees, some have 600 employees.

250
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But I think when I look at my day, I try and split it into three

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parts. A third is really spending time with our portfolio companies.

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That could be the CEO, that could be someone on the team, talking through what's

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going on with them and how we can be helpful.

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We do have about 75 banks and FIs as LPs, and

255
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many of our companies sell into those banks.

256
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And so they may have challenges that we talk through.

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About a third of my day is spent finding new opportunities, so meeting

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with entrepreneurs or people in my network on some of those bike rides or

259
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runs. It might be other investors or operators that I'm speaking

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with to try and find good investment opportunities.

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And then probably a third is on the diligence around that, and that can mean a lot

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of different things. That can be going out and speaking to customers.

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That can mean speaking to folks at Live Oak or Neal on our team

264
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about what they think about distribution or sales.

265
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And a lot of it, though, is really out speaking to our

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banks.

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And so, I really split it those three ways, looking for new

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opportunities, spending time with our portfolio, and then spending

269
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time in the market and diligencing.

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And I think that's the best part of my job, I always tell people is,

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we get paid to meet incredibly fascinating operators

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and entrepreneurs and speak to banks who've got all sorts of different regulatory

273
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challenges and interesting new products they're offering.

274
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And so it's a pretty good mix each day of those items.

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Very interesting. I'm curious,

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you're having so many conversations, such variety.

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You mentioned the AI noise. Of course, there's also a lot of AI signal, too, in

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the noise, but you're right, there's just a large volume of

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that type of activity. I'm curious, of all the things that you're hearing in the

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market or seeing, I guess I'll start with you,

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Tom, what's something you're seeing in the market right now, in the fintech market,

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that really, I don't know, excites you or really stands out to you right now?

283
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Is there anything that you're seeing that really pops out in the market that

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you-

285
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A lot. As I imagine for all of you, so curious what you all think as

286
00:15:51.254 --> 00:15:55.134
well. And to your point on AI signal versus hype,

287
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I think one area that we've been excited about recently is

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agentic customer success within banks and

289
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within fintech and what that really means.

290
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And you have companies,

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none of which we're investors in, but you have companies like Sierra AI and

292
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Decagon and Eleven Labs, these big horizontal companies that

293
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are offering, really started in probably the retail vertical, in

294
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offering the ability for when you call in with an issue as a

295
00:16:23.314 --> 00:16:26.694
consumer, that you have an agent that can handle that

296
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conversation. And all the different pieces that go along with that.

297
00:16:30.183 --> 00:16:33.034
I think people thought originally that was just customer service.

298
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Okay, I want to return an item. I bought a pair of jeans, it's not right, I want to

299
00:16:36.734 --> 00:16:39.174
return it, get a refund, get something else.

300
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Well, in the world of banking and fintech, that might mean change of address

301
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or closing an account. Some basic things like that.

302
00:16:45.714 --> 00:16:49.234
But when you start to think about what you can do with the upsell and the

303
00:16:49.254 --> 00:16:53.014
cross-sell, and the way that you can do that in a

304
00:16:53.034 --> 00:16:56.874
regulatory-friendly way, that's where we are seeing our banks

305
00:16:56.954 --> 00:17:00.314
get excited and I think we're spending a lot of time.

306
00:17:00.334 --> 00:17:04.214
And I think an area where there's clear ROI, you hear everyone talk right now about

307
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AI hype, and what we see as investors is what's recurring

308
00:17:07.974 --> 00:17:10.055
revenue versus experimental revenue?

309
00:17:10.524 --> 00:17:14.354
What revenue will exist with this company a year from now versus a

310
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company going out and saying, "I like this idea.

311
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I'm going to try three different vendors," and in a year, I may be down to one

312
00:17:20.055 --> 00:17:21.815
vendor or I may be down to zero vendors.

313
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And I think that's the noise for us as investors of what's really recurring

314
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revenue? What's going to drive ROI?

315
00:17:28.295 --> 00:17:32.214
And for us right now, and we're hearing it from more banks is, we

316
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love our agentic customer success areas.

317
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That's just one area we've been spending a fair amount of time.

318
00:17:37.914 --> 00:17:41.794
Very good. So Andres, I'm curious, to

319
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Tom's point about things that

320
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really excites him about the market and trying to separate between the signal and

321
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the noise. I'm curious, is there anything

322
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that pops out at you in the market right now, really gets you excited when you're

323
00:17:55.234 --> 00:17:57.934
headed back to the Courtyard for the evening and thinking about the day?

324
00:17:58.334 --> 00:18:01.814
What's something that pops out at you at the market right now that really gets you

325
00:18:01.834 --> 00:18:02.334
excited?

326
00:18:03.214 --> 00:18:06.974
I think there's plenty to be excited and also humble and more

327
00:18:07.274 --> 00:18:08.694
macro concerned about.

328
00:18:09.674 --> 00:18:10.794
I will tell you what excites me.

329
00:18:12.274 --> 00:18:15.894
The conversations around the

330
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openness

331
00:18:18.454 --> 00:18:22.366
around really Double-clicking on

332
00:18:22.446 --> 00:18:26.226
AI and really adopting the technology is

333
00:18:26.266 --> 00:18:30.086
real, right? So sales cycles are compressing, which in the category that's

334
00:18:30.126 --> 00:18:31.086
highly enterprise,

335
00:18:32.386 --> 00:18:33.586
it's really moving fast.

336
00:18:34.466 --> 00:18:37.506
The cost to ship product has dropped dramatically,

337
00:18:38.346 --> 00:18:38.766
and

338
00:18:40.026 --> 00:18:43.566
the thesis around replacement of other

339
00:18:43.606 --> 00:18:46.826
categories that are not only software is also

340
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coming to fruition, right? To

341
00:18:54.686 --> 00:18:58.626
some extent, I also see the pricing needing to evolve, right?

342
00:18:58.726 --> 00:19:01.666
So the era in which you

343
00:19:02.066 --> 00:19:05.786
only sell usage, I think, is evolving to selling outcomes,

344
00:19:06.226 --> 00:19:08.966
but at the same time, it's also selling accountability, right?

345
00:19:09.066 --> 00:19:12.786
So if you're actually going to replace people, you need to be willing to

346
00:19:13.166 --> 00:19:16.446
back that with accountability rather than usage, right?

347
00:19:16.486 --> 00:19:19.746
So I see that kind of convergence of,

348
00:19:20.826 --> 00:19:22.706
okay, maybe we've reached

349
00:19:24.366 --> 00:19:28.206
a new frontier, but it's coming with a different type of mix.

350
00:19:28.666 --> 00:19:31.646
What I do like at the same time is that the

351
00:19:33.386 --> 00:19:36.726
buyer is still used to contracting in the SaaS way, so

352
00:19:36.766 --> 00:19:40.166
with minimum commitments, with longer duration.

353
00:19:40.646 --> 00:19:44.616
So there's that alignment that allows you as a founder and a business

354
00:19:44.686 --> 00:19:47.726
owner to actually plan ahead and be like, "Okay, I can actually

355
00:19:49.586 --> 00:19:53.126
align with my partner." And if anything has created better alignment in terms of

356
00:19:53.166 --> 00:19:55.226
what the objectives of both parties are.

357
00:19:55.926 --> 00:19:59.846
And it's a great time to be

358
00:19:59.926 --> 00:20:03.866
in the space, right? Because I would say from people being

359
00:20:03.966 --> 00:20:04.806
trigger-shy,

360
00:20:06.486 --> 00:20:09.966
I see a much more willingness to not only engage in

361
00:20:11.266 --> 00:20:15.086
conversations, but actually sign contracts that are not just small

362
00:20:15.106 --> 00:20:18.626
pilots, but really long-term commitments to

363
00:20:18.706 --> 00:20:22.086
work alongside with you, right? So that in

364
00:20:22.146 --> 00:20:23.906
itself is very promising.

365
00:20:24.586 --> 00:20:28.376
Very interesting. So cost to ship down at the same

366
00:20:28.426 --> 00:20:29.286
time of

367
00:20:30.646 --> 00:20:34.535
still finding people willing to make some pretty firm commitments in the long term,

368
00:20:34.586 --> 00:20:35.156
which is, that's a

369
00:20:36.106 --> 00:20:37.686
hell of a great combination if you're a

370
00:20:38.686 --> 00:20:42.326
fintech entrepreneur. And of course, I'm sure there's also some

371
00:20:42.346 --> 00:20:45.126
downsides we'll talk about too, but that's pretty good. What about you, Melissa?

372
00:20:45.166 --> 00:20:47.606
What jazzes you about the space right now?

373
00:20:48.746 --> 00:20:52.526
I've got to say, to your point, it is such

374
00:20:53.006 --> 00:20:56.826
a great time to be in fintech, but also a great time to

375
00:20:56.926 --> 00:21:00.586
be in banking and financial services as well.

376
00:21:02.106 --> 00:21:02.566
It

377
00:21:03.686 --> 00:21:07.366
just seems to be growth on across the board.

378
00:21:08.426 --> 00:21:11.206
Kind of talking to the AI

379
00:21:11.506 --> 00:21:13.866
theme that we've been on,

380
00:21:15.366 --> 00:21:19.006
what it is enabling us to accomplish is

381
00:21:19.206 --> 00:21:22.146
probably the thing that excites me the most.

382
00:21:22.346 --> 00:21:24.146
Clearly, we were in the

383
00:21:25.266 --> 00:21:28.806
phase of just, how are we going to

384
00:21:28.846 --> 00:21:32.326
adopt it, like POC. We have truly

385
00:21:32.586 --> 00:21:34.206
now moved into

386
00:21:35.066 --> 00:21:38.866
no more experimentation, actual use cases.

387
00:21:39.626 --> 00:21:43.576
And I think the piece, Tom, you hit on it, is

388
00:21:43.746 --> 00:21:47.596
in a regulatory compliant way.

389
00:21:48.246 --> 00:21:51.386
We are not using AI

390
00:21:51.566 --> 00:21:54.706
for recommendations on the upcoming trip

391
00:21:55.026 --> 00:21:56.286
or

392
00:21:57.306 --> 00:22:00.366
things like that. The stakes are so much higher.

393
00:22:00.406 --> 00:22:03.966
So I think the piece that gets me really

394
00:22:04.026 --> 00:22:07.706
jazzed is probably three things. It's

395
00:22:07.826 --> 00:22:08.166
one,

396
00:22:09.166 --> 00:22:13.006
trust by design. How do we think about AI from

397
00:22:13.046 --> 00:22:15.646
the start in a way that is

398
00:22:16.446 --> 00:22:20.246
regulatory compliant, that is going to bring

399
00:22:20.286 --> 00:22:24.126
the right data and cut through that noise

400
00:22:24.406 --> 00:22:28.286
so that our banks have actionable things

401
00:22:28.346 --> 00:22:31.746
that they are doing that are trusted and compliant?

402
00:22:32.366 --> 00:22:36.106
I think the other piece that really gets me

403
00:22:36.146 --> 00:22:39.606
excited, obviously, from a fintech perspective,

404
00:22:40.206 --> 00:22:44.006
is the fact that it allows us to reimagine how we are

405
00:22:44.046 --> 00:22:47.786
bringing things to market, not just the speed at which

406
00:22:47.826 --> 00:22:50.986
we're bringing things to market. I said earlier, I came

407
00:22:51.726 --> 00:22:54.366
out of running core banking most recently.

408
00:22:54.426 --> 00:22:57.736
The fact that we can now create these

409
00:22:57.786 --> 00:23:01.766
agentic experiences like what we're used

410
00:23:01.826 --> 00:23:05.366
to with Claude and Copilot directly in the core

411
00:23:05.446 --> 00:23:09.306
system themselves is going to change the way banking happens.

412
00:23:09.686 --> 00:23:13.546
I think I still go back as an investor to the core of what

413
00:23:13.666 --> 00:23:16.406
do you really need with this all this new tech? You need distribution.

414
00:23:16.426 --> 00:23:20.386
And what's so cool about what you all have is you have the distribution

415
00:23:20.406 --> 00:23:24.246
and trust, and you have the ability to push product where people

416
00:23:24.346 --> 00:23:27.766
know this is coming from an entity that we trust is

417
00:23:27.806 --> 00:23:30.126
compliant, and we trust that they're going to put something out.

418
00:23:30.166 --> 00:23:33.726
And I'm curious how you've used that advantage that you have on

419
00:23:33.746 --> 00:23:37.386
distribution with so many customers that so many AI

420
00:23:37.426 --> 00:23:40.866
companies would love to be able to access and sell

421
00:23:40.906 --> 00:23:43.626
to just such a cool platform.

422
00:23:45.026 --> 00:23:48.186
Yes. But it's also a huge responsibility, right?

423
00:23:48.546 --> 00:23:50.826
That trust and keeping that trust.

424
00:23:51.466 --> 00:23:53.176
I think one of the things

425
00:23:54.046 --> 00:23:55.746
we've done,

426
00:23:57.166 --> 00:24:00.186
I'll talk to a couple things, but we have

427
00:24:01.126 --> 00:24:04.946
what we call a chief trust officer as part of our

428
00:24:05.006 --> 00:24:08.986
C-suite that really it is a distinct and different role

429
00:24:09.066 --> 00:24:12.366
from the chief risk officer or our CISO.

430
00:24:12.646 --> 00:24:16.626
It is all around trust by design from

431
00:24:16.666 --> 00:24:19.626
the start, especially around AI and data.

432
00:24:20.226 --> 00:24:23.906
But then also making sure we are educating

433
00:24:23.986 --> 00:24:26.566
not only all of our

434
00:24:26.646 --> 00:24:30.436
employees about that responsibility in terms of

435
00:24:30.566 --> 00:24:34.336
how we're developing, what we're developing, the data that is going

436
00:24:34.426 --> 00:24:38.036
into the models that we're using, but then also

437
00:24:38.066 --> 00:24:41.626
educating ... our clients about what they should be

438
00:24:41.766 --> 00:24:42.866
asking

439
00:24:43.746 --> 00:24:46.926
when it comes to whether it's FIS providing that

440
00:24:46.986 --> 00:24:50.526
technology or another partner that they're

441
00:24:50.626 --> 00:24:53.446
using, what do they have to be thinking about?

442
00:24:54.066 --> 00:24:57.126
Because yes, we do have broad distribution.

443
00:24:57.306 --> 00:24:59.106
We have great trust

444
00:25:00.166 --> 00:25:02.886
for the solutions that they rely on, right?

445
00:25:02.966 --> 00:25:06.936
These applications that are mission-critical, but that's also a lot

446
00:25:06.966 --> 00:25:10.286
of responsibility and needs to

447
00:25:10.906 --> 00:25:14.716
really come with the safeguards of how we are deploying

448
00:25:14.726 --> 00:25:17.766
both AI internally and then for our clients.

449
00:25:18.066 --> 00:25:21.846
Yeah. And as a bystander or a partner of

450
00:25:21.886 --> 00:25:24.346
FIS, I cannot stress enough

451
00:25:25.466 --> 00:25:27.826
how serious do they take who they onboard.

452
00:25:28.056 --> 00:25:28.816
The process of

453
00:25:29.946 --> 00:25:33.366
partnering with them was very

454
00:25:33.426 --> 00:25:37.246
detailed. As someone that has been now seeing from the inside

455
00:25:37.346 --> 00:25:37.746
how a

456
00:25:38.826 --> 00:25:41.386
discovery process works for FIS,

457
00:25:42.226 --> 00:25:46.066
the only thing that I can compare it against as a former banker, it

458
00:25:46.126 --> 00:25:49.786
is like a bank call, right? Every single meeting is at the

459
00:25:49.826 --> 00:25:53.106
highest level. For me, it's been a

460
00:25:54.066 --> 00:25:57.886
master class on enterprise-level

461
00:25:58.506 --> 00:26:02.246
support for customers. Because obviously, coming from a startup,

462
00:26:02.726 --> 00:26:02.946
the

463
00:26:03.586 --> 00:26:07.536
range of the sizes of your

464
00:26:07.586 --> 00:26:09.786
customers is going to vary a little bit more, right?

465
00:26:10.226 --> 00:26:11.436
But seeing it from

466
00:26:12.546 --> 00:26:16.046
having access to that, it has been

467
00:26:16.686 --> 00:26:18.646
incredible to see the level of detail.

468
00:26:18.966 --> 00:26:22.806
It really reminds me of my investment banking days.

469
00:26:23.146 --> 00:26:24.346
It's nothing short of that.

470
00:26:25.526 --> 00:26:29.486
Well, and it's interesting, Andres, because I feel like in the world of AI,

471
00:26:29.626 --> 00:26:33.246
with all this going on, there's two things around the trust, but also the

472
00:26:33.286 --> 00:26:37.056
support. And you mentioned this earlier on success-based or

473
00:26:37.086 --> 00:26:40.786
usage-based pricing. I think the best AI companies are

474
00:26:40.796 --> 00:26:44.556
taking some of this forward deployed engineer Palantir model,

475
00:26:44.626 --> 00:26:48.246
which we all might call customer success in the old days

476
00:26:48.666 --> 00:26:51.176
which is, you can't just roll the product out.

477
00:26:51.186 --> 00:26:53.766
The customer has to be trained in it. They have to use it.

478
00:26:53.786 --> 00:26:56.306
They have to know how to use it. And then the incentives have to be the same.

479
00:26:56.326 --> 00:27:00.126
And for a lot of the fintechs that we talk to that are not at the stage of

480
00:27:00.206 --> 00:27:03.386
FIS, but maybe at the stage of three employees and having taken a couple million

481
00:27:03.426 --> 00:27:07.146
dollars, and they say to Canopy, "Hey, what does success look like for your best

482
00:27:07.206 --> 00:27:11.126
companies?" We really talk about those pillars, which you have to show up for your

483
00:27:11.186 --> 00:27:14.346
customer. They have to feel that you're there and that you have to get

484
00:27:14.366 --> 00:27:18.106
adoption of your product within the enterprise that you're selling to.

485
00:27:18.496 --> 00:27:21.326
And I think that's kind of a chicken and egg, which is like Kelly said,

486
00:27:21.446 --> 00:27:25.385
distribution's everything. You can distribute, but are people using it?

487
00:27:25.446 --> 00:27:27.746
Are incentives aligned around people paying for that?

488
00:27:27.836 --> 00:27:31.826
And I think that's a really interesting balance right now for our earlier-stage

489
00:27:32.406 --> 00:27:35.806
fintechs who want to emulate some of the FISs of the world

490
00:27:36.766 --> 00:27:40.026
on the adoption and the customer success and the trust.

491
00:27:41.266 --> 00:27:45.046
No, I was going to say, I also think about that because we talk about,

492
00:27:45.606 --> 00:27:48.726
Sam, you had said before cost of

493
00:27:49.426 --> 00:27:52.726
being able to deploy is coming down.

494
00:27:53.266 --> 00:27:56.646
Speed is becoming faster. The ecosystem that are

495
00:27:56.726 --> 00:28:00.266
surrounding these banks of all

496
00:28:00.286 --> 00:28:03.346
different fintech providers is going to

497
00:28:03.386 --> 00:28:07.366
continue to get bigger before

498
00:28:07.446 --> 00:28:10.926
I think it inevitably starts to rightsize itself

499
00:28:10.986 --> 00:28:14.866
again. And in that, how we think

500
00:28:14.946 --> 00:28:18.106
about just partnership across the

501
00:28:18.286 --> 00:28:21.306
industry of fintechs and the integration,

502
00:28:22.626 --> 00:28:26.446
and the protection

503
00:28:26.646 --> 00:28:30.066
of data while also sharing data on behalf of the

504
00:28:30.146 --> 00:28:33.566
clients really becomes an interesting

505
00:28:33.666 --> 00:28:37.426
area to go deeper on. And I think

506
00:28:37.486 --> 00:28:41.386
you'll see more and more fintech providers come

507
00:28:41.506 --> 00:28:42.366
to the table

508
00:28:44.166 --> 00:28:48.156
with partnerships. It's where we spend obviously a lot of time with

509
00:28:49.086 --> 00:28:50.066
some of

510
00:28:50.886 --> 00:28:54.746
the companies in Tom's portfolio, certainly with

511
00:28:54.786 --> 00:28:58.546
Fuze and Andres. But I think that's going to become more of the

512
00:28:58.626 --> 00:29:00.246
norm in how we operate.

513
00:29:00.606 --> 00:29:00.906
Kelly?

514
00:29:01.466 --> 00:29:05.426
Well, I think the topic of adoption, Tom, is huge, right?

515
00:29:05.506 --> 00:29:09.466
So you can distribute product, and that's been the name of the game for a long

516
00:29:09.566 --> 00:29:13.326
time in the industry, right? We can bring product to market, but if market's not

517
00:29:13.366 --> 00:29:17.266
adopting, we're not promoting, we're not actively engaging, then

518
00:29:18.166 --> 00:29:20.746
product will fall by the wayside. Sales will fall by the wayside.

519
00:29:20.766 --> 00:29:23.966
The company will fall by the wayside at the end of the day.

520
00:29:24.106 --> 00:29:28.086
So, I think in the age of AI, I think it's

521
00:29:28.126 --> 00:29:32.016
interesting to see how the ecosystem is

522
00:29:32.046 --> 00:29:35.766
kind of being reinvented. And we're starting to

523
00:29:35.846 --> 00:29:39.126
layer in those data connections and things to create

524
00:29:39.726 --> 00:29:43.356
richer experiences for users of platform,

525
00:29:43.526 --> 00:29:46.786
whatever that ultimate product may be that is being delivered.

526
00:29:46.886 --> 00:29:48.286
I think it's kind of a general statement.

527
00:29:48.406 --> 00:29:51.766
We need to bring that experience to bear so that we're

528
00:29:51.806 --> 00:29:55.656
leveraging everything that we can through these partnerships to create

529
00:29:55.656 --> 00:29:59.486
that uniform experience to represent the brand, the bank, the

530
00:29:59.546 --> 00:30:01.186
credit union, whoever we're representing.

531
00:30:02.426 --> 00:30:06.026
So I think there's some opportunities, some challenges, all the

532
00:30:06.146 --> 00:30:07.306
things there.

533
00:30:08.186 --> 00:30:11.886
I guess, how are you dealing with, and I guess this

534
00:30:11.946 --> 00:30:15.686
question more for Melissa or Andres, how are you dealing with

535
00:30:17.986 --> 00:30:21.466
challenges with consumers having bad experiences

536
00:30:21.706 --> 00:30:23.785
with agentic AI?

537
00:30:25.406 --> 00:30:27.926
I know I've had my share of them that can be pretty bad.

538
00:30:27.986 --> 00:30:30.766
When they're bad, they're really bad. When they're great, they're really great.

539
00:30:30.906 --> 00:30:33.906
And there's very rare in between. So,

540
00:30:34.886 --> 00:30:38.446
how do you deal with that? How are you grappling with the

541
00:30:38.486 --> 00:30:42.006
experience and making sure that that experience is

542
00:30:42.066 --> 00:30:45.766
positive and not one that has the user rage-clicking or

543
00:30:46.674 --> 00:30:50.054
... cussing out the AI agent at the end of the day because it's so poor, right?

544
00:30:51.534 --> 00:30:52.154
How do you deal with that?

545
00:30:52.914 --> 00:30:55.434
Maybe I'll start, and Andres, feel free

546
00:30:57.074 --> 00:31:00.714
to weigh in. I think we had some early lessons learned

547
00:31:00.914 --> 00:31:03.874
openly. So I talked about

548
00:31:04.794 --> 00:31:07.354
POCs. One of the first

549
00:31:08.914 --> 00:31:12.814
product development things we did a little over a year ago

550
00:31:12.874 --> 00:31:16.194
was around this commercial banking, and it was a

551
00:31:16.374 --> 00:31:18.494
separate agentic

552
00:31:19.313 --> 00:31:21.374
experience. And

553
00:31:22.334 --> 00:31:25.914
lesson learned from that, you've got to embed the experience

554
00:31:26.074 --> 00:31:26.634
where

555
00:31:27.474 --> 00:31:29.754
the client is going to be, whether that's

556
00:31:30.574 --> 00:31:34.334
the consumer coming in to get a loan or

557
00:31:34.374 --> 00:31:38.154
open a new account or whether that's the

558
00:31:38.714 --> 00:31:39.914
branch employee

559
00:31:40.894 --> 00:31:42.754
and the systems they use every day.

560
00:31:43.014 --> 00:31:46.823
So one is in the natural

561
00:31:46.974 --> 00:31:50.014
workflow versus a separate workflow.

562
00:31:50.584 --> 00:31:54.554
The other piece honestly comes down to the data and the models,

563
00:31:54.734 --> 00:31:58.334
right? Are you feeding it with the right

564
00:31:58.394 --> 00:32:01.994
data? Are you testing it

565
00:32:02.654 --> 00:32:05.964
thoroughly with the models? Because that's going to reduce

566
00:32:06.094 --> 00:32:09.984
those ridiculous hallucination answers that

567
00:32:10.034 --> 00:32:13.894
you get when people get so frustrated, and you've got to

568
00:32:13.954 --> 00:32:17.494
give them an option out. Today,

569
00:32:18.254 --> 00:32:19.214
I will say

570
00:32:20.534 --> 00:32:24.494
everything FIS is doing from a development perspective, and

571
00:32:24.534 --> 00:32:28.474
most of what I'm seeing our banks adopt, regardless of whether

572
00:32:28.514 --> 00:32:32.254
it's FIS, is human-assisted, right?

573
00:32:32.434 --> 00:32:36.374
So there is always the option before something goes

574
00:32:36.394 --> 00:32:37.914
all the way through

575
00:32:38.834 --> 00:32:42.814
for someone to have eyes and approval on it.

576
00:32:43.314 --> 00:32:47.254
I think that's going to change over time, but it's not going to change until

577
00:32:47.314 --> 00:32:50.074
we see improved, consistent results.

578
00:32:51.834 --> 00:32:55.093
As a former investor, that was very thoughtful, Melissa.

579
00:32:55.154 --> 00:32:59.094
As a former investor, one of the reasons why I like this space

580
00:32:59.174 --> 00:33:02.244
is because the MPS scores in my category were so low,

581
00:33:03.014 --> 00:33:06.134
right? So I knew there was a lot of room for improvement.

582
00:33:07.254 --> 00:33:11.234
Right? So I also knew that that also signaled

583
00:33:11.274 --> 00:33:13.014
it was a very demanding customer, right?

584
00:33:13.294 --> 00:33:16.954
They're not necessarily unhappy because the install

585
00:33:17.054 --> 00:33:19.974
base or whatever they own doesn't work.

586
00:33:20.014 --> 00:33:23.854
It's maybe because it's mission-critical, and there's

587
00:33:23.864 --> 00:33:27.454
this ratio of unhappy moments to happy moments, and bad

588
00:33:27.514 --> 00:33:31.134
experiences tend to have a bigger splash than not, right?

589
00:33:31.234 --> 00:33:31.414
So

590
00:33:32.494 --> 00:33:36.134
one of our obsessions that I have as someone that has implemented dozens of clients

591
00:33:37.094 --> 00:33:38.134
is

592
00:33:40.114 --> 00:33:44.034
how do I not drop the ball, right? Because

593
00:33:44.054 --> 00:33:47.974
from a reputational concern, at my stage, it's

594
00:33:48.034 --> 00:33:51.274
not the competition that could kill me, it's really messing it up.

595
00:33:51.934 --> 00:33:54.674
Right? So that's a personal obsession that we have.

596
00:33:55.314 --> 00:33:59.184
Conversely, when you talk to clients, one of the key things that

597
00:33:59.214 --> 00:34:01.804
they tell you is, for example, in the case of credit unions, right?

598
00:34:01.834 --> 00:34:04.744
There's the member obsession. And that's something that it's

599
00:34:04.834 --> 00:34:08.495
front and center for that category of

600
00:34:08.694 --> 00:34:09.364
financial institution.

601
00:34:10.515 --> 00:34:14.194
And this CEO was telling me, "Listen, Andres, what sometimes my colleagues

602
00:34:14.294 --> 00:34:18.245
forget is that that kind of one-on-one kind of relationship with

603
00:34:18.294 --> 00:34:18.794
a member,

604
00:34:20.094 --> 00:34:21.975
it's with the member that they're working with.

605
00:34:22.194 --> 00:34:25.834
What they forget is the 10 or 100 people that are standing in

606
00:34:25.915 --> 00:34:26.274
line

607
00:34:27.194 --> 00:34:29.614
to sit in front of that desk." Right?

608
00:34:29.674 --> 00:34:33.654
So what you want is to avoid that line, right?

609
00:34:33.663 --> 00:34:37.504
So it's how do we actually create the best member experience,

610
00:34:38.455 --> 00:34:41.874
but not just for the one person you have in front of you, but for everyone else,

611
00:34:41.935 --> 00:34:43.584
and avoid that friction that comes.

612
00:34:43.915 --> 00:34:46.794
Because maybe you're going to feel like you're in the White Lotus or a Four Seasons

613
00:34:46.935 --> 00:34:50.714
or working with that loan officer, but the prior

614
00:34:50.754 --> 00:34:54.383
experience before kind of dictates what the overall feeling it is.

615
00:34:54.874 --> 00:34:56.504
And when you think about credit unions, right?

616
00:34:56.814 --> 00:35:00.694
One of the problems that we've seen the most is aging customers

617
00:35:00.774 --> 00:35:04.614
and difficulty attracting Gen Z-ers and millennials,

618
00:35:04.694 --> 00:35:08.254
right? So how can I move down the average age from those

619
00:35:08.294 --> 00:35:12.273
customers is part of that strategy.

620
00:35:12.284 --> 00:35:13.824
Hey, Tom, any reactions to that?

621
00:35:15.574 --> 00:35:16.974
My reaction actually was

622
00:35:18.414 --> 00:35:20.824
to something Kelly said, which is around

623
00:35:21.654 --> 00:35:23.914
partnership and dealing with the customers.

624
00:35:23.944 --> 00:35:26.844
And I always think back, you all may remember this, that there was this famous

625
00:35:26.894 --> 00:35:30.794
slide 15 years ago that was the disaggregation of a bank, and I think they

626
00:35:30.854 --> 00:35:34.674
had taken Wells Fargo, every single line of Wells

627
00:35:34.754 --> 00:35:38.554
Fargo business, and then shown a fintech that was going to disrupt

628
00:35:38.614 --> 00:35:42.454
that. And here we are, whatever, 15 years later, Wells

629
00:35:42.514 --> 00:35:45.894
Fargo stock is back to probably near its all-time high after everything they went

630
00:35:45.914 --> 00:35:49.414
through. Still in power, still has an amazing deposit base.

631
00:35:49.474 --> 00:35:50.934
In many ways, the big banks have gotten bigger.

632
00:35:51.304 --> 00:35:55.124
But it always makes me think what fintech learned, I think, Kelly, to your

633
00:35:55.194 --> 00:35:58.854
point on partnership and distribution, is the key

634
00:35:59.014 --> 00:36:00.694
is partnership and distribution.

635
00:36:00.734 --> 00:36:04.554
You're not going to disrupt and take out the banks fully.

636
00:36:04.614 --> 00:36:07.194
You're not going to not going to have to be on FIS.

637
00:36:07.294 --> 00:36:10.954
You see this with the cores and the digital banking providers who have really

638
00:36:10.974 --> 00:36:13.854
great partnership and platform opportunities.

639
00:36:13.914 --> 00:36:17.654
And now what we see is many of our fintech want to be on

640
00:36:17.694 --> 00:36:20.974
those platforms. And I think in a world of AI, that

641
00:36:21.254 --> 00:36:24.574
partnership and that platform approach is even more

642
00:36:24.794 --> 00:36:28.674
important. Because I think it speaks to a stamp of approval,

643
00:36:29.194 --> 00:36:32.794
and this idea that you need to

644
00:36:32.854 --> 00:36:35.634
understand the environment of banks, and they're not going away.

645
00:36:35.694 --> 00:36:39.164
And so I love that point you started with on the platforms and

646
00:36:39.274 --> 00:36:41.194
partnership, and I think, Melissa, you mentioned it.

647
00:36:41.814 --> 00:36:45.794
We see a digital banking provider that we're invested in has that.

648
00:36:45.824 --> 00:36:49.274
And so I think that's just such a great thing for the ecosystem that we're all in

649
00:36:50.326 --> 00:36:53.226
It's no longer about banks versus fintechs.

650
00:36:53.266 --> 00:36:57.116
It's like, actually, they all should coexist and win with

651
00:36:57.166 --> 00:37:00.866
this idea of we as an industry need to be super compliant, we need to be

652
00:37:00.926 --> 00:37:03.806
super thoughtful around AI, and we need to be unified.

653
00:37:03.816 --> 00:37:07.706
And I think that's just been a great evolution from that original slide

654
00:37:07.746 --> 00:37:11.626
15 years ago, where this concept that startups were going to take over the

655
00:37:11.666 --> 00:37:14.326
core and banking system, which we just don't see happening.

656
00:37:14.686 --> 00:37:18.306
No, I agree. Because not going to happen, and on top of that,

657
00:37:19.286 --> 00:37:23.206
we come full circle back to Melissa's opening remarks

658
00:37:23.286 --> 00:37:26.386
around trust. And it's trust in

659
00:37:26.946 --> 00:37:28.526
partnership, trust in

660
00:37:29.066 --> 00:37:32.146
how you go about

661
00:37:33.026 --> 00:37:36.926
choosing those partners. FIS' rich process for

662
00:37:36.946 --> 00:37:40.446
vetting those relationships, because ultimately your trust with your clients

663
00:37:40.486 --> 00:37:43.786
depends on that, and their trust with their customers or members depend on that.

664
00:37:44.306 --> 00:37:47.886
So, it is this chain that runs all the way through and,

665
00:37:48.106 --> 00:37:51.986
without that established trust that we're all doing the right things and

666
00:37:52.046 --> 00:37:56.026
we're moving in a common direction, and we're here to serve, ultimately,

667
00:37:56.106 --> 00:37:58.126
the end customer member. Well,

668
00:37:59.386 --> 00:38:02.706
the fintech and banking world just doesn't go around without it.

669
00:38:02.806 --> 00:38:05.906
So, I love this. This was a great conversation. Thank you all.

670
00:38:06.606 --> 00:38:07.076
Yeah, and I'm

671
00:38:08.066 --> 00:38:09.486
taking away responsibility.

672
00:38:10.346 --> 00:38:13.026
With distribution comes responsibility.

673
00:38:13.326 --> 00:38:17.226
Somebody has to stand between disaster and the

674
00:38:17.266 --> 00:38:18.186
hallucinations.

675
00:38:19.666 --> 00:38:21.366
And so that never goes away, and

676
00:38:22.406 --> 00:38:23.826
I think there's a lot of lessons, too.

677
00:38:25.686 --> 00:38:27.756
Melissa, you said something about

678
00:38:28.286 --> 00:38:31.606
someone taking a look at it before the

679
00:38:32.646 --> 00:38:36.006
big money leaves. It reminds me a little bit like in the loan origination space

680
00:38:36.106 --> 00:38:36.566
about how

681
00:38:37.366 --> 00:38:38.786
we might do auto decisioning

682
00:38:39.666 --> 00:38:43.226
on lower credit lines, but we're going to take a look at that before the money

683
00:38:43.266 --> 00:38:45.846
leaves the door in the larger ticket items.

684
00:38:45.866 --> 00:38:48.506
But it's been a really engaging conversation.

685
00:38:48.626 --> 00:38:51.866
I know you all are super busy. I don't want to keep you guys from missing an

686
00:38:51.926 --> 00:38:54.716
upcoming call. So I'm going to go ahead and call this

687
00:38:55.706 --> 00:38:58.296
episode to a close, just for the sake of

688
00:38:59.606 --> 00:39:03.366
time. But guys, I really appreciate the stew that we've

689
00:39:03.466 --> 00:39:07.106
had here in just bringing together all these thoughts from fintech and

690
00:39:07.166 --> 00:39:08.886
investor land. And so,

691
00:39:09.706 --> 00:39:13.366
Kelly Schultz, my co-host with the most, and I both really appreciate

692
00:39:13.406 --> 00:39:16.866
Melissa Cullen, President, Regional Community Banking at FIS.

693
00:39:18.066 --> 00:39:19.965
Also board member at PayTech Women.

694
00:39:21.306 --> 00:39:25.166
And then we have Andres Clari, who's co-founder, co-CEO of Fuse.

695
00:39:25.726 --> 00:39:29.486
Thanks, Andres. And Tom Davis, general partner at Canopy

696
00:39:29.546 --> 00:39:33.286
Ventures. And just really appreciate all of you guys joining us

697
00:39:33.306 --> 00:39:36.976
today. And for all of you out there watching or listening on

698
00:39:37.026 --> 00:39:37.496
your

699
00:39:38.586 --> 00:39:40.576
fintech Hustle Jam box,

700
00:39:41.766 --> 00:39:45.686
podcaster of choice, we'll look forward to seeing you out on the road at Finovate,

701
00:39:45.806 --> 00:39:49.726
Money 2020, AFT, on some of the other forums, and we'll

702
00:39:50.186 --> 00:39:51.346
see you out there on the road.

703
00:39:52.166 --> 00:39:55.786
Hey there, if you really dig this episode of the Always Unscripted Fintech Hustle

704
00:39:55.886 --> 00:39:59.486
podcast, hit the follow button on Apple, Google, Spotify,

705
00:39:59.606 --> 00:40:02.206
YouTube, or wherever you jam your podcasts.

706
00:40:02.266 --> 00:40:04.346
And hey, tell your fintech friends.

707
00:40:04.506 --> 00:40:08.246
More shop talk chats are coming in the hall with industry leaders.

708
00:40:08.806 --> 00:40:10.246
Look to see you out there on the road.